Discussion:
Bard song stacking
(too old to reply)
Melvin F
2003-06-24 23:40:38 UTC
My main is a 34 bard. I've been doing a little reading on EQDIVA but can't
seem to find a definitive answer.
Does Largo's Melodic Binding (slow), stack with Selo's Constant Chain
(slow, snare)?
Should I even be using these? Here is what I want to twist while in a
group with other tanks:
Amplification
Anthem de Arms
Largo's Melodic Binding
Selo's Constant Chain
I figured this would give the most haste advantage to the tanks.
Otherwise, at 34, what should I be twisting? Assuming I'm the MA?
M
Xanthalas
2003-06-25 08:38:08 UTC
Remeber too that with an enchanter in your group, anthem is largely
wasted since the hastes wont stack.
I'm prepared to be corrected but I thought that Bard songs did stack
with their caster-spell equivalents (ie, Bard haste will stack with
Enchanter hastes, mana song stacks with clarity, etc...).
I have certainly had an Enchanter haste on me and Anthem playing and
seen both symbols on my screen (of course that doesn't necessarily mean
that I was getting the effect of both hastes).
Xanthalas, 56 Beguiler
Mikro, 27 Bard
Xanthalas
2003-06-25 15:51:06 UTC
See above. The warsong and battlecry of the Vah Shir will stack with
spell haste and item haste, and will allow the haste to exceed the haste
cap. The other bard haste songs will stack, if they have nonhaste
components, in which case, only the nonhaste part of the song is actually
having an effect.
Thanks for the info, anything which helps me become more effective with
my characters is welcome advice.
I would guess then that there are better songs than Anthem which I can
play when my group has a haste buff on us - Psalm of warmth, BBB,
DDD, etc...
I think I'll play my Bard tonight, I haven't played him in a few weeks ;)
Xanthalas
Lance Berg
2003-06-25 11:54:44 UTC
Post by Melvin F
My main is a 34 bard. I've been doing a little reading on EQDIVA but
can't
Post by Melvin F
seem to find a definitive answer.
Does Largo's Melodic Binding (slow), stack with Selo's Constant Chain
(slow, snare)?
Should I even be using these? Here is what I want to twist while in a
Amplification
Anthem de Arms
Largo's Melodic Binding
Selo's Constant Chain
I figured this would give the most haste advantage to the tanks.
Otherwise, at 34, what should I be twisting? Assuming I'm the MA?
M
Im not certain, but I dont see that there would be any stacking issue here.
One decreases movement speed (chain)
Chain decreases movement speed -and- attack speed at the same time, and is one
of the all time great bard songs. It stacks with everything, although only
insomuch as it puts the icon on; if there's a better snare that will be in
effect, if there's a better slow that will be in effect, neither of these
effects is in itself additive (you dont slow twice as much, you slow best out
of all slows on the target, same with snare)
while the other decreases attack speed
(binding). Snare and enchanter slow stack, so why not.
Bard slow isnt that great, and if your cleric can keep up with the healing
you dont need it. Indeed if theres a damage shield on the MT, then you are
slowing down the killing. Just use binding if the cleric needs to med
between fights. Also chain doesnt need to be used until the mob starts to
flee. Remeber too that with an enchanter in your group, anthem is largely
wasted since the hastes wont stack.
Since chain is both snare and slow, you generally put it on the mob at the
start of the fight and leave it on till the mob is dead; if the mob aggros to a
caster its snared, if there's a caster slowing and slow wears off its still
slowed a bit, when it gets around to running its snared... unless you are in a
good group with a snarer and slower that are completely on top of things,
there's rarely a case where you don't keep chains on a mob thats being killed.
The "slowing down the killing" thing is worth a seperate discussion. For this
you need to look at how much damage is being done by the DS compared to your
groups other damage output, and how to what extent healing is eating up mana.
As a general rule I think people will tell you the mob is better slowed
regardless of your DS situation unless you are being powerleveled.
A bard is a bit like a druid, jack of all trades. Do what the group is
missing. If it needs more dps, then sing bellow, anthem etc. If its running
out of mana, then sing manasong. If you dont have an enchanter, then mez
things. etc etc.
As an aside, if you -are- using a DS plan, bard DS stacks with other DS (potion
and buff and cleric) and can really boost the DS output of a group quite a bit.
Llyric, 57 bard, Morel Thule
Archerbear
2003-06-25 13:35:15 UTC
Post by Melvin F
My main is a 34 bard. I've been doing a little reading on EQDIVA but
can't
Post by Melvin F
seem to find a definitive answer.
Does Largo's Melodic Binding (slow), stack with Selo's Constant Chain
(slow, snare)?
Should I even be using these? Here is what I want to twist while in a
Amplification
Anthem de Arms
Largo's Melodic Binding
Selo's Constant Chain
I figured this would give the most haste advantage to the tanks.
Otherwise, at 34, what should I be twisting? Assuming I'm the MA?
M
Im not certain, but I dont see that there would be any stacking issue here.
One decreases movement speed (chain)
Chain decreases movement speed -and- attack speed at the same time, and is one
of the all time great bard songs. It stacks with everything, although only
insomuch as it puts the icon on; if there's a better snare that will be in
effect, if there's a better slow that will be in effect, neither of these
effects is in itself additive (you dont slow twice as much, you slow best out
of all slows on the target, same with snare)
while the other decreases attack speed
(binding). Snare and enchanter slow stack, so why not.
Bard slow isnt that great, and if your cleric can keep up with the healing
you dont need it. Indeed if theres a damage shield on the MT, then you are
slowing down the killing. Just use binding if the cleric needs to med
between fights. Also chain doesnt need to be used until the mob starts to
flee. Remeber too that with an enchanter in your group, anthem is largely
wasted since the hastes wont stack.
Since chain is both snare and slow, you generally put it on the mob at the
start of the fight and leave it on till the mob is dead; if the mob aggros to a
caster its snared, if there's a caster slowing and slow wears off its still
slowed a bit, when it gets around to running its snared... unless you are in a
good group with a snarer and slower that are completely on top of things,
there's rarely a case where you don't keep chains on a mob thats being killed.
The "slowing down the killing" thing is worth a seperate discussion. For this
you need to look at how much damage is being done by the DS compared to your
groups other damage output, and how to what extent healing is eating up mana.
As a general rule I think people will tell you the mob is better slowed
regardless of your DS situation unless you are being powerleveled.
A bard is a bit like a druid, jack of all trades. Do what the group is
missing. If it needs more dps, then sing bellow, anthem etc. If its running
out of mana, then sing manasong. If you dont have an enchanter, then mez
things. etc etc.
As an aside, if you -are- using a DS plan, bard DS stacks with other DS (potion
and buff and cleric) and can really boost the DS output of a group quite a bit.
Llyric, 57 bard, Morel Thule
As for the bard haste song - IIRC, Anthem has both ATK and haste on it, and
even if you're chanter or shaman hasted the ATK will still help you.
You also mention that you're MA, gods help you. :) Snare is one of the
biggest aggro-producers; keeping the mob snared will help keep it focused on
you, not your casters. The two slows aren't doing you much good; Largo
isnt' noticably better than what Selo's Chain will do.
When I was MA for a group - around your level - I twisted Amplification,
Selo's Consonant Chain, Jonathan's Whistling Warsong (bear with me), and
Fulfil's Curtailing Chant. Why JWW? Because if you're the only melee in
the group, it's better haste and ST than Anthem. If you're not the only
melee, swap in Anthem - but them why are you MA? /grin Remember that
Fulfil's has an MR reducer on it, keeping Fulfil's on a target reduces
resists for your SCC and the caster's magic-based spells. Have Hymn of
Restoration handy, not only can you regen health on yourself in battle but
group-buffing and group-healing are major taunts too.
Depending on where you're fighting, consider fear-kiting. Twisting
Angstlich's Appalling Screech, Selo's Consonant Chain, and JWW solo'd my
bard from low-40s to 50 at the Combine Fort skeletons in Dreadlands. If
you're working somewhere that fearkiting is practical, give it a try.
Da ArcherBear
Melvin F
2003-06-25 15:53:05 UTC
Thanks to all.
What I'm looking for is how to be the best bard (or close) you've grouped
with. What songs should I be twisting during down time, during Melee, etc.
Most of the time I'll ask the group what they need help with and try and
fill in.
I once grouped with a higher level (much higher) bard when looking for
Lambent quest items. He volunteered to help me out. What an enjoyable
time. First, the person behind the bard had one hell of a great attitude.
Very nice. But he also really new how to play and twist the right songs.
I aspire to be like him. So any song combinations you guys suggest is
greatly appreciated.
M
Post by Archerbear
As for the bard haste song - IIRC, Anthem has both ATK and haste on it,
and even if you're chanter or shaman hasted the ATK will still help you.
You also mention that you're MA, gods help you. :) Snare is one of the
biggest aggro-producers; keeping the mob snared will help keep it
focused on you, not your casters. The two slows aren't doing you much
good; Largo isnt' noticably better than what Selo's Chain will do.
When I was MA for a group - around your level - I twisted Amplification,
Selo's Consonant Chain, Jonathan's Whistling Warsong (bear with me), and
Fulfil's Curtailing Chant. Why JWW? Because if you're the only melee
in the group, it's better haste and ST than Anthem. If you're not the
only melee, swap in Anthem - but them why are you MA? /grin Remember
that Fulfil's has an MR reducer on it, keeping Fulfil's on a target
reduces resists for your SCC and the caster's magic-based spells. Have
Hymn of Restoration handy, not only can you regen health on yourself in
battle but group-buffing and group-healing are major taunts too.
Depending on where you're fighting, consider fear-kiting. Twisting
Angstlich's Appalling Screech, Selo's Consonant Chain, and JWW solo'd my
bard from low-40s to 50 at the Combine Fort skeletons in Dreadlands. If
you're working somewhere that fearkiting is practical, give it a try.
Da ArcherBear
Melvin F
2003-06-25 15:55:01 UTC
Thanks to all.
What I'm looking for is how to be the best bard (or close) you've grouped
with. What songs should I be twisting during down time, during Melee, etc.
Most of the time I'll ask the group what they need help with and try and
fill in.
I once grouped with a higher level (much higher) bard when looking for
Lambent quest items. He volunteered to help me out. What an enjoyable
time. First, the person behind the bard had one hell of a great attitude.
Very nice. But he also really new how to play and twist the right songs.
I aspire to be like him. So any song combinations you guys suggest is
greatly appreciated.
M
Post by Archerbear
As for the bard haste song - IIRC, Anthem has both ATK and haste on it,
and even if you're chanter or shaman hasted the ATK will still help you.
You also mention that you're MA, gods help you. :) Snare is one of the
biggest aggro-producers; keeping the mob snared will help keep it
focused on you, not your casters. The two slows aren't doing you much
good; Largo isnt' noticably better than what Selo's Chain will do.
When I was MA for a group - around your level - I twisted Amplification,
Selo's Consonant Chain, Jonathan's Whistling Warsong (bear with me), and
Fulfil's Curtailing Chant. Why JWW? Because if you're the only melee
in the group, it's better haste and ST than Anthem. If you're not the
only melee, swap in Anthem - but them why are you MA? /grin Remember
that Fulfil's has an MR reducer on it, keeping Fulfil's on a target
reduces resists for your SCC and the caster's magic-based spells. Have
Hymn of Restoration handy, not only can you regen health on yourself in
battle but group-buffing and group-healing are major taunts too.
Depending on where you're fighting, consider fear-kiting. Twisting
Angstlich's Appalling Screech, Selo's Consonant Chain, and JWW solo'd my
bard from low-40s to 50 at the Combine Fort skeletons in Dreadlands. If
you're working somewhere that fearkiting is practical, give it a try.
Da ArcherBear
Melvin F
2003-06-25 15:38:02 UTC
This is exactly what I had in mind. Right now, I have hotkeys 1,2,3 with
my melee songs. So, I start auto attack, hit 1, hit 2 (twice), hit 3
(twice) and go back to 1 (twice). Gets tiring.
M
make two macros (from memory)
/stop song
/cast 1
/pause 30
/stop song
/cast 2
and
/stop song
/cast 3
/pause 30
/stop song
/cast 4
then you don't have to worry as much about getting the timing right on
your twists, once every 6 seconds, instead of every 3. Depending on
your dex (I think) you might be able to reduce the 30 slightly,
reducing the chance of a song running out before you can reapply it.
Archerbear
2003-06-25 15:49:21 UTC
Post by Melvin F
This is exactly what I had in mind. Right now, I have hotkeys 1,2,3 with
my melee songs. So, I start auto attack, hit 1, hit 2 (twice), hit 3
(twice) and go back to 1 (twice). Gets tiring.
M
make two macros (from memory)
/stop song
/cast 1
/pause 30
/stop song
/cast 2
and
/stop song
/cast 3
/pause 30
/stop song
/cast 4
then you don't have to worry as much about getting the timing right on
your twists, once every 6 seconds, instead of every 3. Depending on
your dex (I think) you might be able to reduce the 30 slightly,
reducing the chance of a song running out before you can reapply it.
Not something I recommend. Limits your flexibility.
Let's say I've got my bard in Trakanon's Teeth, chant-kiting the ghosts
there. I've got my drum equipped, clicked the SS boots for levitate, hit a
round of Selo's Acc Chorus for speed, and I'm chewing on a champion with
Chant of Flame, Chant of Frost, and Chant of Disease (my usual mix.) But
the gods of pathing have decided that a frog shaman is going to join the
dance, and I'm being dotted and nuked - it's only a matter of moments until
I'm rooted, and then that champion is going to make elf-paste in a green
foil wrapper.
If I was using macros for my twists, my best shot is to run until the macro
ends and hope I'm not rooted. Unsatisfying, it wastes time and XP I could
be earning. Without switching targets, I drop chant of flame for snaresong
to give me more time - and I can do so instantly, whether that means my
twist changes from 1-2-3 to 1-4-3 or whatever. Then I switch targets to the
shaman, twist 6 in there (charmsong), tab back to the champion, /pet attack
and away we go. My kill rate doesn't even twitch.
8 Replies
534 Views
Permalink to this page
Disable enhanced parsing
Thread Navigation
Melvin F2003-06-24 23:40:38 UTC